What’s Up With Hartley v. Sanchez?

It went to the SCOTUS conference on September 26 and there’s no docket entry after that. It wasn’t granted.  It wasn’t denied.

It wasn’t anything.

Does that mean relisted?  Rescheduled?


As we predicted, the Manuel argument was pretty much a disaster.  There seems to be a consensus that there is a consensus of some kind, but we hope they don’t do anything with Manuel.  At least not yet.

The real muddle of Manuel is that it’s trying to fit the square peg of malicious and malevolent government conduct into the round hole of “unreasonable” conduct under the 4th amendment.  The government conduct complained of in Hartley is less egregious (“knew or should have known”) but we think that’s also a poor fit for the 4th amendment.

Malicious and malevolent conduct is worse than “unreasonable” and violates due process. This is a distinction we must recover, and which Manuel threatens to bury further.  We don’t think Hartley is very useful here, either, although maybe in conjunction with another case where things are made a little clearer.

We have some ideas about such a case, but that’s for another time.  In the meantime…





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6 responses to “What’s Up With Hartley v. Sanchez?

  1. Jessie

    All SCOTUS conferences on September 26 were rescheduled. I’m following one that was supposed to have a conference on that day too. I’ve believe they’ve been rescheduled for this upcoming Friday.

    Be interesting to see if you happen to comment on that one….


    • Jessie, here’s the list of everything that wasn’t out and out granted:


      So if the case you’re following wasn’t on this list and wasn’t granted and hasn’t been rescheduled ot relisted then it’s in the same boat as Hartley.

      Does that help? You have a docket number? Because they go in order. It’s a long list for the first conference of the new term. They pile up over the summer recess.


      • Jessie

        It does not appear that “mine” is on there, but I know for sure the conference was rescheduled (i.e., neither granted nor denied yet).

        Defense at least did not know why the September 26 conference got rescheduled. I assumed the prosecution whined for a reschedule and got its way again. They initially declined to file a response to the petition at all. The Court ordered them to, so they said they’d need an extension and it was granted. Spoiled children! “I didn’t do my homework, Teacher, so now I need more time!” Ugh! The response they finally filed was an incomprehensible piece of shit, too, but in this case, that makes me happy 🙂

        Anyway, yes, I have a docket number. Freakin’ memorized, at this point….


        • Are you talking about the Packingham case?


          • Jessie

            Nope. It’s the one I’ve periodically been circumspect about on here because it involves a friend who’s in federal prison despite being innocent. I don’t mind if you know, but I don’t want random commenters chiming in on something they know nothing about.

            I was just surprised to see that you were following the September 26 conferences, too. I’ve been waiting for that conference for months! It’s rescheduled for this week, though, so we’ll see what happens. Defense was under the impression that all September 26 conferences got rescheduled for reasons unknown, but then I heard back again that actually it’s a good sign they rescheduled it, because some of the cases scheduled for conference that day were just outright denied.


            • Jessie

              Oh, fuck a duck…..

              Prosecutors are goddamn spoiled infants who need to hear “no” once in a while for the good of their immortal souls.


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