Apparently before the whole self defense idea was settled on.
Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6DyoR1lffI
That one was from 2009. Apparently there was another broadcast on Friday:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50147080n
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Lawyers on Strike · Because the System is Broken
Lawyers on Strike 
This whole story would make a great novel. It’s got everything, starting with the economic. With the macro economic background of the oncoming collapse of 2008. With the foreclosures beginning, the gas prices skyrocketing, things coming apart, the illusion of easy prosperity and dream fulfillment disintegrating. Then you have the multi-level marketing angle, look up on your nearest search engine the relevant name and “cult”. If you watch the Youtube videos, the “motivational” videos and the constant talk of “incomes”, “dreams”, “lifestyles” and all the consumer signs of success, the high-priced cars, the beaches, the gaudy homes, expensive watches, the constant money, money and money, with that as the psychological background of all involved. Travis’ background, with parents and crystal meth, and Jodi with the older man when she was very young. The jealousy, the desire to obtain the “signs” of “success”. What a convoluted mess of hallucination, confusion and unreality.
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This is very insightful, I think. You take any M-L-M organization and there’s a lot of disconnect from reality going on there in the first place, since you always have to be “positive”. It’s fertile ground for all kinds of other disconnects, such as professing a devotion to chastity when your actual behavior is totally out of whack with that idea, not that I’m being a prude it’s just that such dramatic contradictions in your own psyche maybe can’t help but spill over into other areas as well.
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Did she have attorneys when she give that interview?…and they let her narrate that profoundly hard to believe story? Did she think people could actually believe the literalness of her story, that the gun didn’t fire and she ran out and just kept going. That story is fanciful, no one can believe that. It’s unhinged. Either she’s a not very bright psychopath or she’s been a very abused woman who had a psychological break. It’s totally fascinating from a psychological perspective.
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She never had a private attorney, Buck, but was represented by the public defender’s office. I can’t imagine that she cleared any of her interviews with her attorneys. What attorney would have EVER allowed her to give interviews? I’m sure it’s been a huge bone of contention with her attorneys that she gave her post-conviction interview.
She was unrepresented during her lengthy interrogations with Detective Flores. I find that peculiar in and of itself as she was an independent consultant of PrePaid Legal Insurance (PPL). Then again, I’ve heard numerous accounts that PPL (or LegalShield as it’s now named) simply doesn’t come through when a member needs an attorney. A member simply waits for an initial free brief consultation, which one could easily find on his/her own in most states.
The story about the intruders is so incredibly difficult to believe that I cannot help but wonder if it’s the truth. In my experience, the most bizarre stories told by abused women actually ARE true.
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AA….that is it in a nutshell when it comes to Pre Paid Legal. You get an initial consultation….probably 15 to 30 minutes….and “reduced” fees for representation.
As far as “true ” stories……you have surely heard the saying “sometimes truth is stranger than fiction”?
Buck: she didn’t say the “gun didn’t fire”……she said she didn’t hear it fire but Travis went down and cursed her out and that is when she realized the gun fired and she must have shot him.
Just to reiterate my own personal “theory” about what really may have happened:
She dropped the camera while shooting pics of him….his expensive camera….and he was so enraged he came out of shower and slammed her to the floor (not the same as a full “body slam”). She is winded but able to get up and runs down the hallway to the closet….grabs the gun on the top shelf by placing one foot on the EDGE of the shelf and reaching for the gun on top shelf. She is balancing herself with one foot on shelf, pushing the shelf BACKWARDS into the back of the shelf , not down. It stays in place and bears her PARTIAL body weight as she balances her other hand on the top shelf….then she jumps down quickly…..with gun in hand.
Travis, runs through closet after her and she turns, points gun at him in hopes he will stop in his tracks, but the gun ACCIDENTALLY goes off because he is heading straight at her with a “linebacker” tackling position. He is now shot in the head and staggers over to the sink and spits out blood….but he is DAZED and doesn’t immediately know where she is. He then SEES THE KNIFE HE LEFT IN THE BATHROOM AFTER HE CUT THE ROPE……grabs it and goes after her down the hallway. He is very weak as he lost a lot of blood in the sink and his head is SCREAMING at him. He tries to stab Jodi…..but in his weakened state she is able to grab the knife from his hand. They struggle for the knife but he is so dazed he can’t grab onto it and she gets it and stabs and stabs and stabs until she is SURE he is dead. She probably slit his throat LAST while his back was laying on top over the front side of her body, and she had no other way to stab but to run it across his neck. Who knows….by that time they might both have been back in the shower.
she drops the knife on the tile floor and SCREAMS in horror over what she just had to do to protect herself. She scrambles around the bathroom and tries to run water on Travis in hopes he was still alive. he isn’t….she panics……runs around frantically trying to clean up and gives up knowing she cannot clean up this mess and must get out of there NOW.
The rest of my NOVEL is in the works…..got to organize all the little details. But that’s my story….and I’m sticking to it.
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Hi AA, On the JAII site you posted a timeline of events.. I wanted to copy and paste it to my Greek friend and I did copy it but I hadn’t got her address until tonight, but somehow I lost where I’d saved it and can’t find it on my laptop anywhere 😦 Was wondering, do you still have it and if so, would you be a love and re-post it on here for me please?
Sorry about this, but what you posted was very good!
Thanks in advance! Heather
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AA, just want to tell you that I found it! 🙂
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Oh good, Heather, I haven’t a clue which post you’re referring to. I haven’t even posted much on there recently. Would it be worth reposting here? If so, feel free to do so.
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Hi AA, it was what you posted on the JAII site, I’ll copy and paste it here for you when I get a mo 🙂
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Here’s what you posted, AA:
Don’t all these “issues” make you wish the defense had used a different strategy (other than self-defense)? Think about it for a moment. Jodi’s first story (briefly) was that she wasn’t in AZ at all. That could be based on fear. Her second story, which she maintained for 2 years and even appeared on national TV with was that there were two intruders who killed Travis, and they let her go. Sure, it seems farfetched, but is it plausible? It’s actually as plausible, if not more so, as a small thin woman killing a much larger man with 16 inch biceps with a knife, right?
At some point, according to Dr. Samuels, Jodi was “gently nudged” into pleading self defense (by him and Nurmi). Why? Well, if they had gone with the strategy of “whodunnit,” lesser included offense would most likely not have been included in the jury instructions. With self-defense, it was almost a given. So, the defense wanted to save their client’s life, first and foremost, understandable. But self-defense is incredibly difficult to sell to a jury, and obviously, the lesser included offenses didn’t help.
So look at the other strategy for a moment:
1. Small thin woman attacks muscular larger man with a knife — not a gun, according to the prosecution. This woman has no previous history of violence and no criminal record.
(Okay, criminals commit crimes with no previous record all the time. Haters will say she kicked her mother as a teenager — but that an under the table kick in response to a kick. And she kicked a dog in the back yard as a freshman in high school when he tore into a garbage bag full of stinky diapers. I pushed my stepfather when he was trying to rape me, and I once spanked a cat for peeing on the floor of my stepfather’s home, because I wasn’t supposed to have the cat inside the house. I was 15-16 when both of these incidents occurred. As a 35 year old adult, I also once slapped my boyfriend across his face. He later became my husband and beat me, and blamed it all on that slap. So, I guess all of this makes me a violent person, right?)
2. There’s a footprint of a fairly large sized boot in the blood at the crime scene. But the body (and the blood) wasn’t discovered until 5 days after the killing. A pool of blood would have been completely dried in that length of time, not just congealed around the outsides. (Research that one if you don’t believe me.) Was Jodi wearing boots? I thought she was wearing socks. Did anyone match the boot print to Jodi’s shoes? Nope. No further investigation.
3. Travis was alive (per the photos) at approximately 5:30 p.m. Enrique came home shortly after 6 p.m. Let’s even assume he was mistaken and he got struck in traffic that day and he didn’t get home until 6:30 or even 7 p.m., although it’s unlikely he had forgotten such a significant traffic jam in 5 days right? He found it odd that the door was locked (it was always open) and that Napoleon the dog had a barrier up preventing him from going upstairs. His girlfriend noticed Travis’s ring and watch on the counter. Since the door was locked, Jodi was most likely gone. Is it possible he missed her? Sure, it’s possible. But how did she lock the door and leave? Okay, so let’s say she locked it from the inside so she’d have notice of someone getting in while she cleaned up and she was still there when he got home.
Well, here’s one thing we know, she made calls around Kingman, AZ beginning at 10:30 p.m. That’s a 3.5 hour drive (in good traffic) from Mesa, AZ. In order to make it there by that time, she had to have left Mesa by 7 p.m.
So, the latest time Jodi could have been in Travis’s house is 7 p.m. Have we established that fact? I think we have.
Again, Travis was alive at 5:30 p.m. Jodi was gone by 7 p.m. at the very latest.
Between 5:30 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. (but possible even earlier than that), here’s what Jodi did (according to the prosecution):
(a) stabbed Travis in his chest perforating the vena cava (while he was seated in the shower, but looking at her);
(b) stabbed Travis in his back, back of his head, multiple times;
(c) chased or was chased by Travis down the hall;
(d) slashed Travis’s throat;
(e) shot Travis in the head;
(f) dragged Travis back to the shower and placed him in it;
(g) ran the shower on his body and did some rudimentary clean up;
(h) stripped the bed and threw the bedding and the camera (perhaps accidentally) into the washing machine and started the cycle;
(i) cleaned herself up (since there was no blood elsewhere in the house and she, therefore, didn’t track it);
(j) waited for the 40 minute (?) washing cycle to complete and transferred the bedding plus camera into the dryer;
(k) assembled and loaded laundry into the washing machine for a second load and started the cycle;
(l) dragged out a floor cleaner, re-arranged furniture downstairs, and wiped the banister;
(m) checked to ensure she didn’t leave her belongings behind;
(n) tracked down Napoleon, brought him downstairs (or maybe got lucky because he was downstairs), and put up the gate to prevent him from going upstairs;
(o) locked the door and left the house.
She did ALL of the above in a space of time somewhere between 30-90 minutes and probably within the lower end of that time. WOW!
3. After Travis’s decomposing corpse is discovered 5 days later, Ashley Reed (then Thompson) calls in a tip suggesting her husband may have been involved. The police talk to Ashley. She discusses her close friendship with Travis and that she was divorcing Dustin and had planned to move in with Travis. Travis thought it would not look right, so she moved elsewhere. This occurred within the week before Travis was killed. Ashley says Dustin was acting “strange” at the time of Travis’s death. Ashley has an order of protection against Dustin, therefore, he has a violent history. The police never interview Dustin even though they have a tip and perhaps a very sound motive. They already have their perp: Jodi, they believe. Later, after the divorce is final, Ashley commits suicide. Shortly thereafter, Jodi wants to change her plea to self-defense.
4. Lisa provides the police with yet another tip. Travis had a roommate with whom he didn’t get along, John Hepworth. He moved out mysteriously in the middle of the night, without telling Travis. The police never spoke to him. Again, they already have their perp: Jodi.
5. For five days after his death, neither of Travis’s roommates smelled the decomposition of Travis’s corpse even though they spent long periods of time in the house, often with their girlfriends. Enrique thought he smelled something funny on the fifth day, but didn’t investigate. When the police arrived after the body was discovered, the smell was overwhelming.
6. Enrique’s girlfriend noticed Travis’s ring and watch on the counter. He never went anywhere without them. They never moved for five days. Travis wasn’t a guy who stayed home all day every day. He was very involved in his church. He didn’t attend church activities, not even church on Sunday.
7. The roommates also observed that Travis’s wallet and laptop were in the den and did not move for 5 days.
8. Zach said he did laundry on Saturday, at first. Later, he said he did laundry on Wednesday. If he did laundry on Wednesday, when? He was only home early in the morning, and between 3-4 p.m. But he supposedly got up and went straight to the return his rental car. One hour is not enough to do laundry, wash it, dry it, and pick it up. So, did he pick up his laundry that night? If so, why didn’t he notice the blood? Did he take Travis’s laundry out and put it back in?
9. When Jodi returns the car, there’s a smell of cigarette smoke. Jodi doesn’t smoke. Who does? (Steven Alexander smokes, but he was a long way away. Did Leslie Udy smoke? She was in the car in Utah. How about Ryan Burns?)
10. Jodi told Dr. Karp that Travis admitting to fondling young boys. She told Dr. Samuels a similar story. Who is/are the fathers of these boys?
11. Throat slashing is the sign of (a) blood atonement in the Mormon religion (Jodi was a new convert without a temple recommendation, so would not have known this); (b) the mark of a professional killer; (c) a sign of a hunter. Jodi didn’t hunt. Who did? Dave Hall hunts. Travis hunted. Who else?
12. An upside down license anything even a license plate is a universal plea for help. Was Jodi crying out for help when her license plate was turned upside down?
Back to no. 1, there has to be some doubt about a woman killing a man with a knife in the first place and having the strength to drag him. It’s more probably someone else did this. Reviewing all of the above, could the defense have made a case and used a different strategy and been successful? Once they chose self-defense, they couldn’t use any of the above.
None of this really matters now, but it’s interesting, right?
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Jodi was mirandized and she promptly waived her right to an atty.
She said she wanted to be helpful in anyway she could and was very very interested in what the detective could tell HER about what HE knew. Did you not hear her over and over and over requesting that Detective Flores PLEASE show her the murder scene photos? Almost begging him and the female detective too when it didn’t quite work with Flores…Saying that she had a morbid curiosity and maybe that would help her to remember details about what happened with the intruders? This was one of the reasons I found it very disingenuous at trial when she would turn her head and start crying whenever the murder scene photos were shown.
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She was indeed read the Miranda warning. It’s quite inconceivable to me that a woman who sold legal insurance and was the number one suspect in a murder would not have immediately insisted upon seeking counsel. If you review the police report, she initially agreed to an interview with Flores. When he followed up, she stated that she thought she should retain an attorney.
There are so many confusing and befuddling aspects to this case, and that is just one of them. A prime suspect in a murder, fully cognizant that she is the prime suspect, and a remarkably bright intelligent woman who sells legal insurance to others, to guard against such an occasion, waives her rights to counsel during a lengthy interrogation in her home town? And then, her parents are interrogated by the same police officer?
Yes, she did ask to see photos of the crime scene. I honestly believe she was trying to “jump start” her memory. You see it as sinister. I see all of this as a woman who is “lost” and cannot even comprehend what is actually occurring or that she might have either witnessed or committed the crime of which she is accused.
I was married to a sociopath — although he was never clinically diagnosed to my knowledge. One wife (other than me — in fact, the only one I ever knew of prior to his arrest for trying to kill me) had an order of protection against him for domestic violence. Another wife died under mysterious circumstances from an unknown condition. A third wife/long term girlfriend (we weren’t able to identify which) has been missing for many many years and no one knows if she’s alive or not. He attempted to kill me. In addition (again, unbeknownst to me), he is a convicted felon who served time in the federal penitentiary. He “invested” money from friends and family members in an unlicensed unregistered trading fund, and spent it on luxury items, while sending his “investors” statements showing incredible profits. He had a history as a teenager as a petty thief and school suspensions or expulsion. He was also expelled from a community college — which I’ve been told is pretty difficult to accomplish. He went from one relationship to another and one job to another — none of which lasted long, other than my marriage to him which lasted 10 years. He told different people different stories about himself. He was constantly in one legal battle or another. I couldn’t even count the number of times he was served with a lawsuit for some ridiculous thing he had done. He never experienced guilt, no matter who he screwed over, and he sought revenge from anyone who dared to cross him. And that’s just a rough outline. He fits the profile, as I’m sure you’d agree.
Jodi? Sorry, to me, she fits the profile of an abused woman, especially given her parents’ statements about her mood swings during the year and a half prior to Travis’s death.
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You know, AA, I read that 1 man in 9 in the US is a sociopath, so I find it astounding the courts, jurors, people on the hater’s site, don’t understand this and recognise the traits. I’m mystified.
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Barking up the wrong tree guys. She killed Travis plain and simple. You all need to accept that and move on. Jodi wouldnt spend half as much time on your guilt or innocence. There is a blackmail theory in the media that make a lot of sense. Jodi was blackmailing Travis threatening to show their sex video to the church, and that provoked the rant by Travis when he called her evil. She was blackmailing him to take her to Cancun with this threat. She is guilty. Move on.
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Justice, these sensationalised rumours are just what people have made up to make others believe that Jodi killed with premeditation, that’s all. All a lot of nonsense. You say its a theory, yet go on to state, as fact, that she was blackmailing him to take her to Cancun? Then say with surety, ” She is guilty. Move on.” ?
You are the sort of person these people hope to brainwash with their ridiculous ideas and they succeed. Make a lot of sense? Its rubbish!
Yes, people like you, Justice, all say they want to ”move on”.. never mind that Jodi didn’t have a fair trial, bored with it all now, are you? Ah, yes, its not happening to you, is it, why should You care?
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@Justice The blackmail theory in the media is another spin to persuade and keep public opinion interested in the case-the cash cow case. It seems that Travis used words as “evil”,” sociopath” very often even for himself (read emails between Travis and Sky H). The meaning of the word has another weight for him as it does for me or others. Most of us woulds use words as awful, atrocious, terrible instead of evil. Was Jodi “evil” or “awful” in his opinion?
Would Jodi spend time on someone´s guilt/innocence? Probably not.
The Cancum trip was kind of a bonus from PPL to his best members . The list with all the names who were to join the trip was made in January. It was not possible to make any changes since the fly booking for maybe hundreds of people was already done. And as a PPL member Jodi knew about that fact.
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Agree Buck-it is fascinating psychologically which is why I have so much interest in this case. There is an excellent website entitled Sociopathworld.com run by one M.E. Thomas a self admitted and medically diagnosed sociopath who is female and a Sunday School Teacher. ME says she has zero guilt or fear like most people do… She says it is all about control and power for a sociopath and mental mind games of seduction. They like to be able to prove to themselves and to others how they can lift up a person or destroy a person if they want to. And M.E. explains she does have the need to do both.
ME explains that because of her lack of fear she she could have easily become homicidal or violent because she has no conscience in the traditional sense and when people get in her way she seriously sees red. …But she really does not like the “messiness” of criminality so for her its never been an issue, she focuses more on success and achieving as opposed to things that are illegal.
INTERESTINGLY…she is a member of the Church of Latter Day Saints and says the whole Mormon religion is like a playground for sociopaths because Mormons believe every person is really a good, wonderful person and has the ability to be “God like”, this is especially attractive to sociopaths because they like to be seen as GOD like.
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Thanks Guilty, I’d never heard of that website before. I’m sure it will give me chills to read it. If you have now seen my last post (about my ex-husband), you will understand why.
I will have to try to find them for you if you have not heard them yet, but there are two interviews with a self-admitted “high functioning” sociopath out there. He’s a man and he functions as he does because he genuinely wants to remain with his wife, although he does not believe he is capable of love. He described his complete lack of guilt or remorse, which I found fascinatingly disgusting. However, at the same time, he discovered that he could be very successful in business as a result.
He apparently devotes himself these days to helping substance abusers. He finds himself to be the ideal candidate to do so. It doesn’t “hurt” or “disappoint” him if they relapse — as they frequently do. However, he can encourage them to quit while feeling nothing for them. He has also helped abused women — because again, it is exceptionally frustrating when they return again and again to an abuser, even after criminal charges are filed. Even the most experienced therapist often has to seek his/her own therapist due to the disappointment involved.
Have you heard those interviews?
While I realize you are relating the Mormon aspect to Jodi, can you see where it might relate to Travis? I’m sure you aren’t condoning entirely the way in which he treated Jodi or the language he used. And I hope you realize that he was stringing along a bunch of rather innocent women at the same time. I found it fascinating that he admitted to Sky Hughes that he was “a bit of a sociopath.” I’ve heard from many that they often admit the truth at times. My ex-husband’s Facebook profile described himself as “A delightful mix of arrogance, insolence and narcissism.” It’s quite insightful if you delete “delightful.” His custom license plates read “Mr Wrong” which he delights in.
Long before there was “The Secret,” I was very involved in the positive thinking New Age movement (including Unity Church and the Church of Religious Science). In fact, I was actually a motivational speaker and an author of a book on the subject (unlike Travis who motivated people to sell — although, in full disclosure, I must admit, I conducted seminars and workshops for Amway for compensation, even when I was not a member). My ex-husband could not stand the concept, nor could the presumed sociopath exes of other women I have known. Have you found that to be the case also? Or, have you found the contrary? (Note: I’m genuinely interested in this subject, despite my earlier sarcasm. We have, at last, it seems, found common ground — whether we agree or not on anything Jodi-related.)
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Sorry, about all the comments, but did she call Gus Scearcy the night of the murders or not?
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That’s a good question. Gus Searcy gave interviews stating that he believed she did call him crying hysterically at 3:30 a.m. He said she told him Travis was dead, but she didn’t know what happened. She told him she was in Northern CA, at the time. It seems that if that call really did occur that night, the prosecution would have found it material?
Gus said he called the DA after she was arrested to inform them of this call. As he said, the story was not in the limelight at that point, so he had no ulterior motive (he’s also the only PPL characters in the story that isn’t Mormon). The DA was never particularly interested in what he had to say.
He also witnessed a telephone conversation some months beforehand where Jodi took a call from Travis. She tried to get off the phone and he overheard Travis yell “Damn it Jodi” and she ducked as if to avoid a bullet. She took the rest of the call outside, embarrassed. When she came back inside, she was visibly shaken.
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Someone on the jodiariasisinnocent site not too long ago called Kirk Nurmi’s office about Gus Searcy’s claim that Jodi called him. This person who regularly posted on that site was particularly bothered about this as he thought that perhaps Gus knew something that COULD help Jodi…Maybe she wasn’t there or maybe this helps her in some other way. Anyway- the guy posts about his conversation that the lady who answered the phone at KN’s office said it was a NON-issue, phone records did not back up Searcy’s claim. This person got a LOT of heat from Jodi Arias Supporters who basically said this person had a lot of nerve for calling Nurmi’s office- and he should have never called and that should have been turned over to “SJ” ONLY to do that…. SJ, (who we now know is a paid PR guy) is the only person that can represent her supporters??? Sounded fishy to me but this was before I knew about who they were. Now..this person was a full on Jodi Arias Supporter but when he reported this information back to the followers over there it did not sit well with the current narrative becs Gus Searcy has been elevated in supporters circles as someone who stuck up for the defense despite everything, so they certainly do not want him to be full of hot air as many on the “other” side have claimed he is.
But the real problem of course is if you listen to Jodi Arias’ testimony on the stand as she went over what happened the night she left Travis’ on the way to SLC, she mentions NOTHING about calling Gus Searcy. And Kirk Nurmi asks Jodi NOTHING about phone records as he goes over the narrative with her. Had this been a REAL issue that was documented and supported by phone records (which again, according to someone at Nurmi’s office they were NOT) it would have been brought up.
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First of all, I can tell you for a fact that SJ is NOT a paid PR guy hired by anyone to represent Jodi and elevate her image. That is a blog/youtube rumour. You become angry that we discuss theories on this blog, but yet you bought into that hook, line and sinker? Come now.
I do recall that discussion on JAII. No one has EVER said that SJ is the ONLY person who could call the attorneys’ offices. However, there was a great deal of suspicion that a person would call an attorney’s office and be given information about pending litigation. (There is one person there who has had communication with Jennifer Willmott’s office but it has always been a one-way street. She gives information, but none is given in return.) Attorneys are bound by confidentiality. For someone in Kirk Nurmi’s office to divulge information to a stranger from a blog would be an ethical violation of such magnitude that he could be disbarred. That is where the doubt arose from when that poster said that. (Interestingly enough, the poster subsequently disappeared and was not a “regular”.)
I have to wonder about Gus’s statement that Jodi called him the night Travis was killed. I believe he was mistaken and she called him on the night she was notified he was killed. Why? Well, if there was evidence that she called Gus that night, I would bet my bottom dollar Martinez would have pounced on it. It would have blown apart any testimony regarding Jodi’s fugue and Martinez is not one to pass up such an opportunity to impeach a witness. So, we appear to be in agreement on this issue. Ah, finally! 😀
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JM, AA: curious to hear thoughts on today’s proceedings. The real reason why Jodi’s lawyers wanted out, it because they “felt they couldnt provide adequate consuel”, not because she did the post-verdict interview. Today’s circus is already up on youtube.
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